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Encyclopedia Galactica => Science => : z3ro August 23, 2012, 05:55:02 PM

: Fetus = Parazite?
: z3ro August 23, 2012, 05:55:02 PM

I know this sound stupid, but....


According to a biology book I was reading.
here's the definition of a parasite: "An animal or plant that lives in or on a host (another animal or hplant); it obtains nourishment from the host without benefiting or killing the host."  RIGHT?


I then realied that : A fetus seems to meet this definition.  :o


Has the book got the definition wrong?
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: kateus August 23, 2012, 06:08:31 PM
That sounds about right...  ;D


But you could argue that the woman is benefiting by having her DNA being passed on to the next generation. There also may be more benefits, such as the benefits of childbirth, etc. So while it's close, and fetuses do leech of the mother's body, the mother gets something out of it.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: namespace7 August 23, 2012, 06:12:54 PM
Completely wrong, because a parasite is not wanted by the host and comes to the host without the interaction of the host. This is not the case with a baby.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: z3ro August 23, 2012, 06:28:25 PM

Completely wrong, because a parasite is not wanted by the host and comes to the host without the interaction of the host. This is not the case with a baby.


I do know that!


so, the books got the definition wrong then?


A parasite is an organism that has sustained contact with another organism to the detriment of the host organism.


That one's from wikipedia
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: namespace7 August 23, 2012, 06:35:07 PM
Anyway, a fetus is not a parasite. Not even biologically, because it has obligatory dependent relationship with the host. The association with the mother is also temporary and part of a process which originates within the host.

Calling fetus a parasite is like calling a text editor a virus because it consumes system resources.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: Kulverstukas August 23, 2012, 06:50:41 PM
Completely wrong, because a parasite is not wanted by the host and comes to the host without the interaction of the host. This is not the case with a baby.
Ok then, if the baby wasn't planned, then it's classified as Parasite?

IMO babies - unborn or born, are parasites.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: namespace7 August 23, 2012, 07:50:58 PM
Oh, come on, don't be so cruel and heartless.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: z3ro August 24, 2012, 05:07:55 AM
Haahha  :P   OF course man, we DO know that a fetus is a future Human Being.. so it's not really a 'parasite'... but that definition just struck me hard..   ;)
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: p_2001 August 24, 2012, 05:35:39 AM
A fetus is a future parasite.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: z3ro August 24, 2012, 05:33:39 PM
A fetus is a future parasite.


 :o  future?
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: p_2001 August 24, 2012, 06:03:05 PM
Oh yes... See the fetus is nurtured by the mother... Loved and taken care of with her own blood.  Then it is delivered and we find an innocent baby... The baby demands nothing other than what's natural and well within its rights... Then as it grows up... It turns into a leech.. Selfish, mean, cheap cruel, harsh, violent and destructive... It takes from the world and keeps taking..never giving anything back.. That is why i said a future parasite.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: z3ro August 24, 2012, 06:22:17 PM
Oh yes... See the fetus is nurtured by the mother... Loved and taken care of with her own blood.  Then it is delivered and we find an innocent baby... The baby demands nothing other than what's natural and well within its rights... Then as it grows up... It turns into a leech.. Selfish, mean, cheap cruel, harsh, violent and destructive... It takes from the world and keeps taking..never giving anything back.. That is why i said a future parasite.


You can't possibly say this holds true for every baby, Right?
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: Kulverstukas August 24, 2012, 06:29:05 PM
Oh this is true. What p_2001 said is... very, very true.
Babies are parasites. No one can say otherwise.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: p_2001 August 24, 2012, 07:53:05 PM

You can't possibly say this holds true for every baby, Right?
???

i can... Tell me, how many people give more than they take? Out of 7 billion contenders? Name just 7.
That Steve jobs that Americans worship?
Our maybe Einstein?
Buddha? Mahavira... Christ? Who?

While the fetus is not a parasite... The final product is.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: techb August 26, 2012, 01:51:01 PM
I see it as a parasite. The baby does not give back to the mother other than furthering generations. Which is not entirely a good thing, seeing how the world is over populated in the first place.

The baby causes physical harm and damage, back problems, malnutrition, sciatica, organ damage, etc... Plus, the mother can die giving birth because of all the ripping and blood loss.

Even after birth, you have post parden depression, and it leeching further resources. Sever sleep loss, stress levels unheard of, and money and time being sucked from the parents. All this to hopefully seeing the child successful in life. Which is only up to the child, so 18+ years could have been for nothing and you wasted half your life to a lost cause.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: z3ro August 26, 2012, 04:17:31 PM
I see it as a parasite. The baby does not give back to the mother other than furthering generations. Which is not entirely a good thing, seeing how the world is over populated in the first place.

The baby causes physical harm and damage, back problems, malnutrition, sciatica, organ damage, etc... Plus, the mother can die giving birth because of all the ripping and blood loss.

Even after birth, you have post parden depression, and it leeching further resources. Sever sleep loss, stress levels unheard of, and money and time being sucked from the parents. All this to hopefully seeing the child successful in life. Which is only up to the child, so 18+ years could have been for nothing and you wasted half your life to a lost cause.


hhmmm.. put like that, I does make sense to call a baby a parasite..
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: Huntondoom August 27, 2012, 01:02:29 AM
This Is not Intended onto any of the post already made

a better discription of a Parasite: a organism that is living off its host, without providing its host with something in return

Parasitism is a type of non mutual relationship between organisms of different species where one organism, the parasite, benefits at the expense of the other, the host.

Let me Explain this:
you got Bacteria that live in the roots of trees that provide the tree with materials and the tree provides the Bacteria materials They live in Harmonie, though the bacteria lives as a parasite in the tree roots, though the tree has benefits of this cooperation

like certain birds pick the tooth of hippos for food, and clean teeth for the hippos this is co-operation, Fetus and Parasite Live off their host without returning Usefull materials or are Damaging its host

A Fetus can destory its host because it drains the mother of minerals/vitamins and so on
just like a parasite can
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: z3ro August 28, 2012, 02:39:56 PM
Symbiosis....
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: p_2001 August 28, 2012, 04:23:47 PM
Nope... While man is a parasite.. A fetus is not.

Babies are desired by mothers.. It is love and affection. While a baby does not give back material goods, it fulfills the emotional needs of parents.
Try asking people who cannot have kids...or those who lost theirs..
In no way is a baby a parasite.
There is more to life than simple material wants.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: Kulverstukas August 28, 2012, 04:41:43 PM
Babies are desired by mothers.. It is love and affection.
What if the baby was an accident and isn't wanted by the mother? then what? is it classified as a parasite then?
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: Huntondoom August 28, 2012, 05:22:17 PM
Nope... While man is a parasite.. A fetus is not.

Babies are desired by mothers.. It is love and affection. While a baby does not give back material goods, it fulfills the emotional needs of parents.
Try asking people who cannot have kids...or those who lost theirs..
In no way is a baby a parasite.
There is more to life than simple material wants.

Looking From the ethic Human Said Then Yes, your right, but what if people wanted a tape worm?

also from a biology point of view: Its a parasite, where looking here from to different sides
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: techb August 28, 2012, 05:50:46 PM
...but what if people wanted a tape worm?

I've know people that do like and want worms so they lose weight. Just throwing that out there.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: p_2001 August 28, 2012, 09:02:29 PM
I've know people that do like and want worms so they lose weight. Just throwing that out there.
going off topic...but that is completely retarded of them.. What if the eggs reach brain?
They never heard of cyst?


Anyhow

A tapeworm is a parasite because it is unintentional and harmful...
The baby is half of mother...
The body fights the tapeworm..


The baby does not hide from the mother.. the baby forms BECAUSE the mothers body WANTED it...
The baby does not and cannot choose... So he is blameless and hence not a parasite.... He is a product formed because of the willingness of the mothers body.... The mother willingly accommodates the child... Her body goes through a lot of changes but none were forced... Those are a natural part of human bodily functions... A parasite is forced...

Man is not blameless... His actions are is own..thus grown up humans are parasites.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: Kulverstukas August 28, 2012, 09:26:08 PM
This is bullshit. Baby is a parasite by the direct definition. End of story!

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080127220331AAW0pFa
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: namespace7 August 28, 2012, 10:12:59 PM
This is bullshit. Baby is a parasite by the direct definition. End of story!

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080127220331AAW0pFa (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080127220331AAW0pFa)

Ok, if you want to go by such a vain and simplified definition. However, even by such definition, baby would only be a positive parasite, not a negative parasite like pests and insects and all kinds of nasty stuff that harms other things.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: Huntondoom August 28, 2012, 10:50:12 PM
going off topic...but that is completely retarded of them.. What if the eggs reach brain?
They never heard of cyst?


Anyhow

A tapeworm is a parasite because it is unintentional and harmful...
The baby is half of mother...
The body fights the tapeworm..


The baby does not hide from the mother.. the baby forms BECAUSE the mothers body WANTED it...
The baby does not and cannot choose... So he is blameless and hence not a parasite.... He is a product formed because of the willingness of the mothers body.... The mother willingly accommodates the child... Her body goes through a lot of changes but none were forced... Those are a natural part of human bodily functions... A parasite is forced...

Man is not blameless... His actions are is own..thus grown up humans are parasites.
There Are Chase Were THe body is dumping the baby, its called miscairage

Even so, Their are women who's body can take on the baby, but those that have body that will be their death, its a high stress on the Female body

Even so To EVERYONE

this Discussion has too many different points that are being drawn in like ethic's and yadyyadyyadya

the simple question was: "Has the book got the definition wrong?"

Yes the book has it wrong, however they might have had the same discussion as us :P

(annyway lock the thread :3)(Feels more like a flame war)
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: lucid August 29, 2012, 12:33:25 AM
Ok seriously? I guess if this is a serious debate and we decide that fetuses are parasites than so are toddlers, teenagers, and twentysomething year old losers who still live at home. They live off their parents and are generally unwanted as well.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: Huntondoom August 29, 2012, 03:48:53 PM
Ok seriously? I guess if this is a serious debate and we decide that fetuses are parasites than so are toddlers, teenagers, and twentysomething year old losers who still live at home. They live off their parents and are generally unwanted as well.
Parasite live inside organismes the rest of the childhood is more like a leech
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: -Polyphony- September 02, 2012, 05:19:33 AM
great question lol, I don't really know what I want to believe here, but it does seem that a fetus is helping the mother more than hurting lol I wouldn't call my soon to be born nephew a parasite but he is behaving like one ;)
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: Wizegamer September 03, 2012, 02:46:24 AM

as much as i enjoy the idea of a unborn baby being a parasite.

According to a biology book I was reading.
here's the definition of a parasite: "An animal or plant that lives in or on a host (another animal or hplant); it obtains nourishment from the host without benefiting or killing the host."  RIGHT?


by your original definition i think the text means Another animal, not like animals or plants. its host would be a different species all together. but by human nature  the definition of =


(in ancient Greece) a person who received free meals in return for amusing or impudent conversation, flattering remarks, etc.
---- aka a bum or suck up


and


a person who receives support, advantage, or the like, from another or others without giving any useful or proper return, as one who lives on the hospitality of others.
---- children or elderly ...


aka dependents  might make a better example of how a infant is a parasite.



: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: G Man September 15, 2012, 04:26:02 PM
Yall seriously need some females in this debate to rule out a biased male conclusion. A female certainly wouldnt call a fetus(unborn child) a parasite.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: Deque September 16, 2012, 02:18:46 PM
Based on the biology book definition it is a parasite I guess.
But in my opinion it is a difference if the body breeds and feeds the organism without being forced by it or if the parasite forces the body to feed it.
A fetus doesn't do anything to the body. It is the body itself that starts the process to provide everything so the embryo can grow (and eventually become a fetus). It is the body that in some cases decides to abandon the embryo if it is not able to keep it. So in my opinion a fetus is not a parasite and the definition of a parasite has to be altered.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: z3ro September 16, 2012, 03:22:10 PM
So in my opinion a fetus is not a parasite and the definition of a parasite has to be altered.


What would be YOUR definition of a parazite?  :P
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: Deque September 16, 2012, 04:22:47 PM

What would be YOUR definition of a parazite?  :P

Just add the distinction that I made to the book definition.  ;)
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: EmilKXZ September 17, 2012, 12:21:01 PM
Well, following with that Kulverstukas said: What if a baby wasn't planned?

There's a problem, fundamental problem around here in this planet. Human Rights says you must respect the life of a person, otherwise you're a killer (I know there are scales for this, but let's talk in simple terms: black or white). Now, what if a woman sadly gets raped and the criminal didn't use condoms? They are unlikely to care and the woman/girl has high chances of getting pregnant easily. Too much trauma for getting an emergency pill either. So, since its "conception" a zygote is a person. So she can't abort, at least not legally in most underdeveloped countries, which is where this kind of stuff happens most. Pretty much fucked literally.

Not to hijack a thread by misleading the main topic this way, but I personally think that way beyond fetus wanted or unwanted, Human Rights could be adapted to our current needs. Seen the overpopulation mentioned around and in underdeveloped countries, babies born each 15 minutes or so. I've seen in the news that a girl can't save her own life, because she needed to abort but she has to abide to a law that doesn't let her to abort.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/25/world/americas/dominican-republic-abortion-teen/index.html

Some things must change in this world. Radically or not, we, as species can't survive if we can't adapt to the new conditions, and our own laws are starting to shrink our life quality. I have particular thoughts about this kind of stuff, let's not talk further about it.  ;D

And btw: I've been asked several times... what if I myself was aborted? well, bad luck. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: lucid September 18, 2012, 02:09:36 AM
I think we are looking at the definition of a parasite the wrong way. I don't think that an unwanted baby is a parasite because in this case the word want is not to be understood as what the person thinks they want.

The end all purpose of life is to reproduce can we agree? If so, then biologically a baby is wanted whether or not it was planned. Your body wants a baby whether you want it or not. If a baby was a parasite your body would probably take action to fight it off like an infection.

So no, I don't think a baby, unwanted by the person or not, is a parasite.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: p_2001 September 18, 2012, 02:19:17 AM
I think we are looking at the definition of a parasite the wrong way. I don't think that an unwanted baby is a parasite because in this case the word want is not to be understood as what the person thinks they want.

The end all purpose of life is to reproduce can we agree? If so, then biologically a baby is wanted whether or not it was planned. Your body wants a baby whether you want it or not. If a baby was a parasite your body would probably take action to fight it off like an infection.

So no, I don't think a baby, unwanted by the person or not, is a parasite.

What he said better than i could have put it.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: fable September 18, 2012, 11:49:28 PM
My opinion is that a baby or child is a parasite. For one, humans are animals thus the definition could apply. For two, the baby or child feeds off of it's mother and father for most of it's life. Dependent on them for it's very survival. My big thing is... The only thing that gives people a bad feeling about this truth is that the word "parasite" has a negative connotation. Who decided that "parasites" have to be bad. After all there are some medical treatments that apply leaches for blood diseases, or maggots to eat the infection away from a person's limb. Applying the term "parasite" is only a bad thing if you let it be. Heck, even our pets can be labeled as parasites. Or what about our want to live being a parasite to our well being, in that we fight for survival at even the expense of our happiness.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: p_2001 February 03, 2013, 03:22:51 AM
www.fightaging.org/archives/2011/11/fetal-stem-cells-can-repair-the-mother-during-pregnancy.php
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: Deque February 03, 2013, 03:27:49 PM
Good link p_2001.

I want to add this definition from Wikipedia:

Parasitism is a non-mutual relationship between organisms of different species where one organism, the parasite, benefits at the expense of the other, the host.

A baby is of the same species as its mother, so it is no parasite.
: Re: Fetus = Parazite?
: iTpHo3NiX February 03, 2013, 07:30:01 PM
Good link p_2001.

I want to add this definition from Wikipedia:

A baby is of the same species as its mother, so it is no parasite.


<3 +1


I'm sorry but I can never look in the eyes of my beautiful newborn baby girl and call her a parasite.