EvilZone
General Tech => Operating System => : hmm September 09, 2012, 10:27:39 AM
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I'm rather new to linux, but I used Mint 12 for about a week and found it rather dull and unnecessary. I think linux has a lot to offer, but Mint never really forced me to learn anything. I feel (I could be wrong) that using something like Arch or Gentoo would provide me with much more knowledge. My questions are as follows: 1. Would I be bitting off too much by choosing one of these? and 2. Would I actually learn a lot? Thanks.
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1. Maybe with those distros. If you want to learn linux than use debian (im biased) and if you cant handle debian then you know your not cut out for linux
2. Hell yes you'll learn a lot
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If you choose Arch you will learn VERY much, but it will take you some time and effort to get the system running as you like.
If you think that Arch might be a bit too difficult for you, then I recommend a distro that is based on the legendary Debian linux, and it is called CrunchBang. :)
I am currently using CrunchBang and even though it is a relatively easy distro to set up, it is more interesting and fast then say Ubuntu or Mint. CrunchBang is more elegant and less bulky. It also uses a very minimalistic window manager called OpenBox. It doesn't even have a full Desktop Environment like Ubuntu or Mint do.
You can check out my desktop screenshoot (http://i.minus.com/iN81GUusCD8Gz.png) to see how OpenBox looks. There are no icons on the desktop and you will learn to do everything using keyboard shortcuts. The file manager is also not necessary to use, as you can manipulate files very quickly and efficiently using the command line. Anyway, it is a fun distro. Give it a try and feel free to ask for any help or assistance if you ever get stuck.
Good luck mate, and always remember that the amount of knowledge and skills that you will learn and acquire is directly proportional to the effort you put into seeking those things.
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ubuntu
linux mint
pinguy os,
zorin os,
peppermint os3
this is a list of OS's i was given to check out for beginners, after looking into all of them i went with Zorin. Really just choose one that you feel comfortable with, thats what i did. I'm going to give Zorin a try and if i don't like it then there are other OS's out there to choose from.
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Hrm I've only worked with a few Linux Distros
Debian (my perfered server box)
CentOS (another server option)
Ubuntu (debian based, however more user friendly with A LOT of support, GREAT for beginners, yet capable for advanced users)
Backtrack (used to be slak based now its ubutnu/debian based; pen testing suite)
If you would like to learn more about linux I would suggest Debian as well ;)
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My qualms with Debian would be that it wouldn't force me to learn anything. Thats what happened with mint, I got by really easy and didn't learn anything, so I never used it. I think that having almost total control would force me to figure out exactly how all my shit works. I do not know if Debian offers this to the same degree. Does it?
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Well its not so much the OS that makes the difference. In any Linux OS you can decide to go GUI or CLI. If you want a challenge go CLI and don't rely on a GUI to do your tasks, do them with the command line. Whenever I use a linux distribution I always use the command line to get shit done. Its up to YOU to take the time to learn it.
But if thats how you feel, maybe an Arch distro would be good for you.
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If you really want a real challenge which will teach you TONS and will make you very knowledgeable about linux, then I recommend building your own distro from scratch. yes. Absolutely from scratch. Call it hmmOS. Or whatever. This (http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/) website will tell you most of what you need to achieve this followed by this (http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/). Note that it will take a long time, so in the meantime while you are building your Linux From Scratch, you can use CrunchBang :)
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My qualms with Debian would be that it wouldn't force me to learn anything. Thats what happened with mint, I got by really easy and didn't learn anything, so I never used it. I think that having almost total control would force me to figure out exactly how all my shit works. I do not know if Debian offers this to the same degree. Does it?
I wouldn't say that Debian/Mint/Ubuntu force you to learn anything, they just open up an environment where you can learn stuff. Really you can learn how to do almost any sort of customization to the OS, you just have to know what you want to do. Arch Linux does force you to learn stuff from the start, as from the start all the download mirrors are commented out and you have to figure out how to work their package manager, but after that you'll still just have a Linux box that you have to figure out what to do with.
I don't know of any operating systems that force you to learn, just ones that give you the ability to experiment and learn stuff for yourself.
I am currently using CrunchBang and even though it is a relatively easy distro to set up, it is more interesting and fast then say Ubuntu or Mint. CrunchBang is more elegant and less bulky. It also uses a very minimalistic window manager called OpenBox. It doesn't even have a full Desktop Environment like Ubuntu or Mint do.
You can check out my desktop screenshoot (http://i.minus.com/iN81GUusCD8Gz.png) to see how OpenBox looks.
That looks/sounds really nifty. I'm gonna have to download this and try it out.
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I may take a crack at LFS, i'll do more research, it seems like a lovely project, and provided I partition my hard drive correctly I shouldnt have any issues correct? I only ask because uni is about to start up and i will surely need my computer functioning.
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You should have a separate machine for LFS. That way you will be able to experiment and play around without messing anything up. You never know what might happen. In theory, LFS does not require a separate machine or even a separate HDD, but I highly suggest a dedicated machine for messing around. You can get a sufficient machine to do this for 50 bucks. You don't need much power. An old shitty Pentium 4, 512 RAM, and 20GB HDD should be more than enough.
Have fun.
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and provided I partition my hard drive correctly I shouldnt have any issues correct?
.....uh maybe you should wait a bit on LFS. No offense but I know some hardcore linux users who have failed at LFS. It is not simply partitioning your harddrive and if that's what you think it is you have alot to learn about linux. As I said...no offense. Even installing Arch consists of alot more than partitioning. I went to Arch straight away after using Ubuntu for a short time, and yes, I did have problems but there is the Arch Wiki as well as google. As long as you are willing to spend ALOT of time with your distro and not much else you should be good to go with Arch. It can be very frustrating but as long as you know how to read and ask questions intelligently you will learn alot and I'm sure grow to love Arch Linux.
P.S. The Arch forums are not for the faint hearted. If you think we are harsh here you will be hard pressed to thrive on Arch forums. Be sure to ask intelligent questions.
Other than that I think you will learn a lot using any linux distro. It all depends how you use it. I know people who run Ubuntu who know more about linux than some Arch users. It happens rarely but it does happen. It's also possible to run Arch and learn not much at all. You have to take responsibility for you own learning.
tl;dr Try Arch, but you will learn alot using any linux distro
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This is only like a day old, so I'm still going to put in my opinion :)
Ubuntu and linux mint are very complex and hard to understand if you just try to jump right in if you want to learn the insides (stuff such as the init system and stuff like that), IMHO arch linux is the greatest learning experience, sure Gentoo is too but it's a source based distro and if you don't have a freaking 30 core processor, you're going to spend a ton of time compiling package. Arch is like the binary version of Gentoo, meant for intermediate to experienced linux users but no compiling lol and there is the most gigantic wiki for arch... greatest user donated knowledge base for any distro (also IMO) :P pick whatever you want though it's just your choice, this is Linux remember ;)
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...Ubuntu and linux mint are very complex and hard to understand if you just try to jump right in...
Good point about source Versus binary distros, but I really do not understand what you mean by this part of your post.
As far as I know, Ubuntu and Linux mint are the very opposite of what you said.
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Yeah that's not exactly an accurate statement.
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A bit off topic but --- Im having difficulties with what OS to choose. I know windows very well but eveyone says linux is best.
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There is no such thing as a best OS. There is only a best OS for a specific scenario.
So, what do you want to use it for? If gaming is a must, then the answer is Windows. If video editing and motion graphics is a must, then Windows is the answer. For most other things, I would go for linux distro. Any will do to start with, but I always recommend CrunchBang. Simple to use and very elegant and fast.
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I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, I was referring to the init system of ubuntu and linux mint (sysv instead of bsd style init scripts) arch's init system is super simple because it's the rc.conf hostname and a couple other files, you'll never be able to come up with an equivalent of that in a sysv init system like debian and ubuntu based distros have. I wasn't saying Linux mint is hard to learn lol just the sysv startup system is complex and overwhelming with rc.0/ through rc.6/ and all of the soft links in the /etc/ folder :P
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I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, I was referring to the init system of ubuntu and linux mint (sysv instead of bsd style init scripts) arch's init system is super simple because it's the rc.conf hostname and a couple other files, you'll never be able to come up with an equivalent of that in a sysv init system like debian and ubuntu based distros have. I wasn't saying Linux mint is hard to learn lol just the sysv startup system is complex and overwhelming with rc.0/ through rc.6/ and all of the soft links in the /etc/ folder :P
Now I got what you were saying :)
Yeah, that does make sense.
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My recommendation would be: Ubuntu Server. It is not precisely lightweight, but it comes stripped down of most of stuff you'd for sure not use by a start.
You don't have to install daemons if you don't want to (you can just install base system and forget about the LAMP thing). When you get used to the command line, you can proceed with installing xorg and gnome or whatever you like.
Now, it might be easy to do all of this stuff, but don't forget that "installing everything" makes you weak when you have to compile stuff. I'd advice you to have it about 3 months or so, and when you get used to it, move to something more advanced, don't get stuck.
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Take a look here http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major Grab a few of those and run the live sessions in virtualbox. Once you had a play about you'll find one you like. Either that or grab a copy of Debian. It's use friendly but not too polished that everything is done for you.