Author Topic: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC  (Read 2113 times)

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Offline bluechill

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Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« on: December 16, 2013, 07:09:37 am »
  Here is a privacy policy which we will probably use for Alpha and beyond (This does not apply currently!).  Thoughts?

 Privacy Policy v2.6.1


Acknowledgement


Before you read this, note that the promises stated herein don’t actually guarantee that we are following these or that things are exactly as they are stated here. Therefore this may or may not be accurate at the time you read this. However, you shouldn’t take away from this that we don’t follow this, instead, take away that just because you read something on the internet doesn’t make it entirely true and that you should be paranoid especially on a website dedicated to the art of penetration and exploitation.


One other acknowledgement, we have received exactly zero secret court orders from law enforcement and spy agencies. We would expect to challenge an order if served on us. Watch closely for this notice to disappear. We also have received exactly zero non-secret court orders from law enforcement and spy agencies.


Introduction


Unfortunately, due to how the internet works (TCP/IP and HTTP(S)), you give us a lot of information about you. Since you generously give us so much information, we thought we would return the favor and tell you what we do with your information, what we keep, for how long, and who can access it.


We here at the EvilZone network keep the bare minimum level of information required to keep EvilZone secure and safe. Of the limited information that we keep, only the following people have access to it: ande, bluechill, Xires, Factionwars, and Kulverstukas. Of the limited information that we keep, we give out information about you to no one EXCEPT a valid court order deemed reasonable and applicable by the staff of EvilZone.


Information You Send to Us


IP Address (We don’t log this*)
Your Browser (We don’t log this)
Your Operating System (including version) (We don’t log this)
The date and time you accessed us (We don’t log this**)
What you view on the site (We don’t log this***)


*In order to keep EvilZone secure whenever you post a message on the forum or send a private message we hash your IP address and store it in the database using per user "salt". This means that we cannot actually view your IP address but can do checks against it. For instance, if we want to IP ban someone we just ban the hash and whenever you visit the site, the website will hash your IP address and check it against the ban list.


**The only exception to this is private massages and forum posts. When you send a private message or post to our forum we log the time stamp into a database so we can organize them and keep track of who posted what and when.


***In order to make the site easier for you to use, if you’re logged into the forum, and unless you turn this feature off, we log whether you have viewed a topic since it’s last post to let you know whether you have more information to read in a specific thread.


Information We Share


We do not share any information with anyone except if we receive a valid court order deemed reasonable and applicable by the staff of EvilZone. If the request is not reasonable or applicable we will deny giving them any of our limited stored information and will challenge or ignore the order if possible.


Security


To the highest degree possible, we try to ensure that our software is secure and free of vulnerabilities and privacy-related exploits. It is impossible to prevent all exploits however, we try our best to make sure that we have as few as possible and that when we become aware of one we minimize the damage and fix it as soon as possible. To do this we make sure we have the latest updates to all of our non-in-house software and try to do as much of our software in-house as possible. The list of software we do in-house includes but is not limited to:


EvilCMS (Otherwise known as the website)
EvilIRCd (Otherwise known as the software that our IRC servers run)
[redacted]


Unfortunately, due to the variety of virtualization software our hosting providers use, we are not able to use Full Disk Encryption (FDE) on our servers nor would we be able to guarantee on the servers that do support it that the disk is actually secure. Therefore we are always looking for new and better solutions to our issues that still maintain the security we want or enhance our current security.

One example is how on our nodes we use TrueCrypt to encrypt sensitive information such as logs, configurations, user data, source code, among other things.  Ideally we would use FDE but unfortunately we cannot therefore we use TrueCrypt containers for the things that need the most security.  TrueCrypt containers should work on both dedicated servers and virtual private servers (VPS).

Another area where this is evidenced is in how we encrypt your passwords. Unlike most websites and companies out there we at EvilZone do not employ one-way cryptography methods designed to be fast such as MD5 or SHA1, instead we use methods that are designed to be slow to hash data. The reason for this is that it makes it harder for people to brute force the data, in some cases taking magnitudes longer than MD5 or SHA1. The method we use for this is multiple rounds of SCrypt and SHA512 together to produce a unique hash. We also uniquely (per user) “salt” each password to make “rainbow tables” and other precomputed hash tables unusable. Your password will also never be sent over the internet in plaintext or even as part of SSL, instead, as you'll note if you dig into the source code, we do part of the SHA512 hashing locally to add another layer of security in addition to the forced SSL.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 08:52:33 pm by bluechill »
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Offline Phage

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2013, 09:53:13 am »
To me it seems all fine. You seem to be open about the privacy features and that's great, but at the same time you don't give out information that can be crucial or dangerous for the Evilzone network. I approve it.
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Offline proxx

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2013, 10:34:01 am »
I really appreciate you (and the rest of the staff) share this information with us.
Seems reasonable and at least 100x better than most of the policies out there.


Too bad about the hosting and the disk encryption, is this the 'fault' of the provider?

Might be nice to make a module that returns to you the things you are actually sending,  such as browser , OS , headers and all that jazz.
Having it displayed on the same page as this information would be kinda neat.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 10:34:17 am by proxx »
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Offline Stackprotector

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2013, 11:09:31 am »
Well, i really think we should log IP's. This can make our lives soo much easier. Finding multiple nicks per IP, banning ip's, finding bots etc.
~Factionwars

Offline proxx

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2013, 11:18:05 am »
Well, i really think we should log IP's. This can make our lives soo much easier. Finding multiple nicks per IP, banning ip's, finding bots etc.
I can understand those arguments and it seems fair enough to be doing so, however logging that data also has the consequence that there is more data to be given out to any auth that might happen to want stuff.

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Offline Stackprotector

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2013, 11:21:14 am »
I can understand those arguments and it seems fair enough to be doing so, however logging that data also has the consequence that there is more data to be given out to any auth that might happen to want stuff.


Mhm, what about hashing IP's? So we can ban them and match them. We could use a new salt every now and then so the older data is unrecoverable unless someone finds the old salt (which you need to be sure that they can't ofc)
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Offline proxx

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2013, 11:22:17 am »
Mhm, what about hashing IP's? So we can ban them and match them. We could use a new salt every now and then so the older data is unrecoverable unless someone finds the old salt (which you need to be sure that they can't ofc)

That sounds like a clever plan , that way it would still be maintainable to ban certain adresses and indeed compare stuff. clever.
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Offline bluechill

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2013, 07:12:18 pm »
Well, i really think we should log IP's. This can make our lives soo much easier. Finding multiple nicks per IP, banning ip's, finding bots etc.

Technically right now we *do* log IPs but using one-way cryptography we could make it so we can't give out IPs only say whether or not a person has used a specific IP and use comparisons to other members.
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Offline bluechill

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2013, 07:47:28 pm »
I have updated the privacy policy to be clearer, more accurate, and include more information based on feedback we have received.
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Offline proxx

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2013, 07:51:58 pm »
Looks solid and something to be proud of in these days +1 for you bluechill.
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Offline bluechill

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2013, 08:24:14 pm »
v2.5 updated from more criticisms.
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Offline bluechill

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2013, 08:41:42 pm »
v2.6 updated from even more criticisms
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Offline proxx

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2013, 08:48:14 pm »
Speaking of which , wouldnt it be a good thing to hide some boards from the public ?(I know some already are)
I know a lot of fora employ this method , its might be dillusional security but one must not forget the scrapers might very well be good at profiling these days.
For example I know you guys get a lot of traffic from google and certain posts such as the lord of the rings books but I personally dont like that one single bit, that opinion and can be ignored.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 08:49:32 pm by proxx »
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Offline bluechill

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2013, 08:53:14 pm »
Speaking of which , wouldnt it be a good thing to hide some boards from the public ?(I know some already are)
I know a lot of fora employ this method , its might be dillusional security but one must not forget the scrapers might very well be good at profiling these days.
For example I know you guys get a lot of traffic from google and certain posts such as the lord of the rings books but I personally dont like that one single bit, that opinion and can be ignored.

We already do hide boards but that is something to take up when we switch to Alpha.
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Offline Darkvision

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Re: Potential EZ Privacy Policy - RFC
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2013, 11:57:59 pm »
Speaking of which , wouldnt it be a good thing to hide some boards from the public ?(I know some already are)
I know a lot of fora employ this method , its might be dillusional security but one must not forget the scrapers might very well be good at profiling these days.
For example I know you guys get a lot of traffic from google and certain posts such as the lord of the rings books but I personally dont like that one single bit, that opinion and can be ignored.


then i may have never found this place! Seriously though my first post was in GoT thread, because i was searching for the books, not a hacking forum. When i realized what i had by chance stumbled upon i was giddy, signed up and have loved it here ever since. Yes a broader footprint is going to bring in more trash, but it will also long term bring in more good contributors.


Also just a thought:but generally speaking for what is over all a boilerplate ToS you could probably hire a actual lawyer to make it legally bulletproof, and it shouldnt cost a great deal. Maybe talk to someone at the EFF?
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