Author Topic: Question about adminstrator  (Read 1547 times)

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Offline Hanio

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Question about adminstrator
« on: November 12, 2012, 09:52:41 am »
 Hi guys,
 Let's suppose I'm connected to a network whose admin asked in a friendly way not to download anything but certain things he specified.
 He never came to my machine or setup any kind of client to it.
 
This question is about TORRENT
 
 Does he know the name and the extension of the file I download if I use Utorrent and magnet links???
 
 Thanks for your help in advance   

Offline lucid

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Re: Question about adminstrator
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2012, 10:16:10 am »
Not sure if I understand your question. Are you asking if you ISP admin can see that you are torrenting?
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Offline Hanio

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Re: Question about adminstrator
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2012, 11:35:45 am »
Thanks Lucid for the fast response.
I'm talking here about my local network administrator.

I know if I download anything via a direct link he can know what it is if he wants to.
I Know also that he even could sniff passwords or chat sessions or whatever.

My question is, if I use magnet links and Utorrent can the local network administrator know things like file name, extension, or size of things I download???

I there anyway he can do it?

Remember, he did NOT install any software on MY machine (remote client or anything).

Offline Kulverstukas

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Re: Question about adminstrator
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2012, 12:24:37 pm »
I don't think he is monitoring the network 24/7, but if you're gonna download torrents, he will see a huge traffic usage increase and might get suspicious. But I think he cannot tell the difference if it's HTTP packets or other kind of packets.

Offline Hanio

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Re: Question about adminstrator
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2012, 01:17:13 pm »
Thanks Kulverstukas,Let's assume he is monitoring the network 24/7.
If I download via torrent will there anything in his logs like:
 ip xx.xx.xx.xx is downloading the file "lord of the rings.avi"
Would he know what I'm downloading or downloaded?

Offline Kulverstukas

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Re: Question about adminstrator
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2012, 01:31:40 pm »
Thanks Kulverstukas,Let's assume he is monitoring the network 24/7.
If I download via torrent will there anything in his logs like:
 ip xx.xx.xx.xx is downloading the file "lord of the rings.avi"
Would he know what I'm downloading or downloaded?
No he cannot see such details. He can see your IP (which computer) and the packets, but if the "network admin" isn't very skilled then don't bother with this shit and just download, because you have to know your stuff to analyze the packets so quickly and do it every minute... very unlikely he is watching you every minute dude...
You're too paranoid.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 01:32:12 pm by Kulverstukas »

Offline RedBullAddicted

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Re: Question about adminstrator
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2012, 02:07:50 pm »
Hi Hanio,

it all depends on what your administrator is doing. Do you need to use a proxy for accessing the internet? I guess not cause typically the ports used by torrent wouldn't be open. Torrent uses many different ports and connects to a lot of different IP address during downloading. This is suspicious behavior which should get recognized by every type of intrusion detection/prevention system, firewall and proxy. I haven't looked into torrent traffic but you can download a sample capture here: http://wiki.wireshark.org/BitTorrent ... I haven't found the name of the downloaded file in it. But I am sure that there are ways. You need to download the .torrent file first and import it to your client? (I really have not much experience with torrent). If your administrator takes a look at the traffic your client produced before the download started he is maybe able to find the download of the .torrent file. At least he could see the url the file is from.

but as Kulverstukas said I would not worry to much about it. Don't think your admin is capturing all the time. If he gets an alert and starts sniffing then he can see that you are using torrent but it would be to late to see which file you are downloading. But as I said at the beginning... it all depends on what your admin is doing/running.

Hope this helps
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Offline ande

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Re: Question about adminstrator
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2012, 06:16:15 pm »
I don't think he is monitoring the network 24/7, but if you're gonna download torrents, he will see a huge traffic usage increase and might get suspicious. But I think he cannot tell the difference if it's HTTP packets or other kind of packets.

They dont need to monitor anything for 24/7 manually, this is why we have logs and alert systems. The thing here is, torrenting in itself is not illegal. The torrent protocol is a perfectly legal and great protocol for sharing files in a distrebuted maner. You know.. Its the entire "guns dont kill people, people do" dilemma. And telling the difference between HTTP packets and torrent packets is very much possible. Routers, switches and software are getting very smart these days..



No he cannot see such details. He can see your IP (which computer) and the packets, but if the "network admin" isn't very skilled then don't bother with this shit and just download, because you have to know your stuff to analyze the packets so quickly and do it every minute... very unlikely he is watching you every minute dude...
You're too paranoid.

Yes he can, the torrent protocol, by default, is plain text.

Any decent switch/router could easely be configured to dump all traffic to a network management port to setup a NIDS system where torrent detection among other things would be easy to set up. Thing is, you dont really need a super computer to parse 1gbps anymore.. I could do it with my 11" laptop.

I will quote myself: "They dont need to monitor anything for 24/7 manually, this is why we have logs and alert systems.". And in your case I will even change that just slightly to "They dont need to monitor anything for 24/7 manually, this is why we have network packet analyzers, IDS's, IPS's, firewalls, logs and alert systems."

Torrent tracking is not something a few annoying network admins do anymore, it is being done on a huge scale by huge international ISP's. So I dissagree, he is not being too paranoid.



Hi Hanio,

it all depends on what your administrator is doing. Do you need to use a proxy for accessing the internet? I guess not cause typically the ports used by torrent wouldn't be open. Torrent uses many different ports and connects to a lot of different IP address during downloading. This is suspicious behavior which should get recognized by every type of intrusion detection/prevention system, firewall and proxy. I haven't looked into torrent traffic but you can download a sample capture here: http://wiki.wireshark.org/BitTorrent ... I haven't found the name of the downloaded file in it. But I am sure that there are ways. You need to download the .torrent file first and import it to your client? (I really have not much experience with torrent). If your administrator takes a look at the traffic your client produced before the download started he is maybe able to find the download of the .torrent file. At least he could see the url the file is from.

but as Kulverstukas said I would not worry to much about it. Don't think your admin is capturing all the time. If he gets an alert and starts sniffing then he can see that you are using torrent but it would be to late to see which file you are downloading. But as I said at the beginning... it all depends on what your admin is doing/running.

Hope this helps

The usage of a proxy is not really relevant to whether or not he can download torrents or be cought downloading torrents. You dont need open ports at all to download torrents, reverse connection and UPnP takes care of all those problems. However, things are quite easier for the client if you have the correct port(s) open, some even claim it increeses the download speed.

The thing is, you do no longer need to download the .torrent file, its this new stuff TPB(among others) are doing with magnet links that is the main focus in this topic; Whether or not a network administrator can see when a user clicks the magnet link. And the answer is no, he can not.

However, without being any expert on the torrent protocol. I am pretty sure a decent network admin would be able to see the torrent tracker information gathering process anyway, and by that, maybe even the file names. But once again, I am no expect and I know you can turn on forced encryption in most good torrent clients, and I guess this MIGHT even encrypt the tracking process. I dont know.
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Offline RedBullAddicted

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Re: Question about adminstrator
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2012, 07:22:29 pm »
Hi ande,

thanks for clearing that up. As I am not an expert on the torrent protocol, too (as I said in my previous post) your provided information are very good :) You are absolutely right about how smart the network gear is today. I am always fascinated when I get a new box to play around with. Can't say it often enough but if you are interested in a really smart product you need to have a look at the palo alto devices. But to get back on topic... I asked about a proxy server cause this would be an instance where traffic capturing could be made and as a proxy intercepts all traffic (even ssl encrypted if it is setup for ssl inspection) he could easily be detected. As you said a simple span or mirror of the port connected to the isp router and collecting the data would produce a beautiful log, too :)
Anyway I think the statement of our posts are the same. Yes it is possible to easily detect torrent traffic and basically it should be possible to see what you are downloading.
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