Questions about anonymity and IP addresses

[FatFish]

Hi, people.

When sending an email, you can (spoof?) the headers, so that the email appears to be coming from any IP address...  and that is 100% anonymous. 
I think THAT's what bulk emailers and spammers do?
I have no desire to send a million spam emails…  I'm asking about the process.
And…  THAT is 100% anonymous…  Is that correct?

And my second question…  What about Browsing the internet?
IF sending emails CAN be done 100% anonymous, CAN BROWSING be similarly done, without going thru the trouble of using proxies?
But…  I don't just want Anonymous browsing…  I specifically want it to look like I'm sitting in Dallas, or Detroit, or Denver, by using an IP address in one of those cities (or some other method?).
I've got a database with all IP numbers in the USA, and their approximate location.
When browsing thru a website with Firefox, is there a way to "spoof" something to make it look like I'm sitting in Dallas, or Denver?

Thanks.

FatFish

[Kulverstukas]

You answered your own question. I don't see any other way of browsing Internet anonymously without proxies. You could browse from a hotspot so you won't reveal your real IP, turn off JavaScript to stop executing nasty scripts, probably browse in Private Session mode (Opera and FireFox has them) but I don't really know if that helps other than not leaving traces on the computer your sitting at.
I don't see a problem using proxies though. Find a good one, load up FoxyProxy in FF or directly set it in Opera and you are good to go.
With email spoofing you could just set up a custom SMTP server somewhere and send emails from there - BOOM! anonymous emails.

[FatFish]

Thanks for the reply.

Again...  I don't just want Anonymous browsing…  I specifically want it to look like I'm sitting in Dallas, or Detroit, or Denver.

I was hoping that this could be useful...
I've got a database with all IP numbers in the USA, and their approximate location.

Can it be done?

Thanks.

[Zesh]

Thanks for the reply.

Again...  I don't just want Anonymous browsing…  I specifically want it to look like I'm sitting in Dallas, or Detroit, or Denver.

I was hoping that this could be useful...
I've got a database with all IP numbers in the USA, and their approximate location.

Can it be done?

Thanks.

What are you planning? A massive attack on the US government?

[Jath]

Rent a VPN thats in the area you want.

[FatFish]

What are you planning? A massive attack on the US government?

Zesh...  not that it doesn't Need or Deserve it, but...  unfortunately, I'm not planning anything like that. 

I'm trying to get a Perl script written for me that will find certain ads on the Dallas or Denver or wherever Craigs-List websites (the Browsing) and then click on the CL Mailto link to send an email to the seller.  Those emails go thru the CL servers, and CL ads are intended for a Local audience.  So, I want CL to think that I'm actually IN Dallas or Denver, or any of the other 700 CL locations around the USA.

I don't want to deal with proxies…  too much trouble, and maybe impossible, anyway. 
I'd need a Buttload of proxies.

Rent a VPN thats in the area you want.

Jath...  I know nothing about Virtual Private Networks (I just looked up that acronym). 

I thought that national IPs database would be VERY Valuable in this scenario.
Is there No Way it can help me?

Can this be done?

Thanks very much for the replies.

[ande]

FatFish:


For your email question. If you send the email(s) from your computer, if you are allowed to by your ISP. It will show YOU, as in YOUR ip as the sender. No way around that. You cannot spoof that. However, in most cases your ISP will not allow you to send emails directly from your computer, so often your ISP has something like smtp.yourisp.com which allows you to send emails. In this case, your IP will(most of the time) be listed as x-forwarded-for but not as the direct sender(that will be the IP of whatever smtp.yourisp.com is). Which means that the smtp.yourisp.com server is sending the email for your IP(x-forwarded-for). So, your IP will still be in the email headers. BUT, if you proxy up. You can most likely use the ISP of the proxy you are using to send emails from the proxy's ISP with x-forwarded-for equal to the proxy IP you are using, that way allowing you to send anonymous emails.

Also, when you are using webmail like hotmail, gmail, yahoo etc. Your IP is safe from the mail headers. However you obviously need an account there, and they are ofc keeping logs of the emails you are sending, when you are sending them, to who and how many you are sending. So for bulk emailing that a no-go.



Now, for your second question about anonymous web browsing. So many people are thinking exactly what you are thinking. - "Cant I just spoof my IP to someone elses?". Well, yes. In theory you can. But it will be totally useless. You will be sending packets out from your computer/network but you wont receive anything back, because the packets going back will be going to the IP you spoofed from, not back to your IP/network. So to answer your question. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO SPOOF YOUR IP AND USE IT FOR SOMETHING USEFULL. End of discussion. Like already said, get a set of GOOD proxy's - if you can afford it, get some VPS's or VPN's and you will be anonymous in high gear. However, as also previously said. Make sure to disable any flash or javascript addons, as there is techniques to reveal the true IP behind a proxy with these things.

If you still got questions, do ask

[FatFish]

Gee…  a reply from the Administrator !  I feel So Special !   

OK…  seriously,…  Thanks for the lengthy information, Ande.

The email that I send to the CL sellers includes a link to my website.
THAT single email is the Only communication that I want with the seller.
I won't send any more emails to him, and I don't want to receive any reply email from him.
My website further helps him to sell his item, for free.

I suppose that I could run this Perl program from the website host server,
or I could run it from my home PC.  Is either one better than the other, for some reason?

Maybe I'm planning ahead too much…  if you think the entire thing is impossible.

Oooooooohhhhhhhh…  you might have a great idea, there…
I can create 10 Gmail accts, 10 Yahoo accts, 10 Hotmail accts…
And have the Perl script rotate thru them to send the emails.
(THAT is possible…  yes?)
I've already decided that the Perl script should have a random time lapse
(1 to 3 minutes) whilst browsing CL, in order to look like a real user. 
So, sending from DIFFERENT Gmail accts every (6?) minutes should not be a problem…  yes?
Did we just solve the emailing problem?

Now…  the Browsing…
Again…  I only want CL to think that I'm browsing in Dallas, or wherever.
The Perl script will scan the website, click to open a seller's ad page, then random pause, then click on the Mailto link.
That's all I want it to do.
DO I WANT to get anything BACK from CL ?  I don't think so.
WHAT do I want or need to get back from CL ?

If I'm barkin' up the wrong tree…  OK.
Do I need to start learning everything I can about VPN and/or VPS ?
I can't afford sh1t right now, but my website IS a Terrrific (potential ) money-maker.
Let me know if you think you can solve these problems, and want to make some $.

You (and Kulverstukas earlier) mentioned disabling Java… 
I recall reading somewhere that if you do have Java on your machine… 
even if you temporarily disable it… 
there are holes / backdoors thru which Java stuff can still be run.
Are you aware of that?

Thanks very much for your thoughts, people.

[Xires]

The e-mails are not 100% anonymous.  There's always a transaction trail that can narrow down to the correct origin IP.  However, this usually must be done manually and people only do that when they have a reason to suspect it.  As for anonymous browsing, attempting to 'spoof' your IP doesn't work because you must send the request and still receive the response.

[ande]

Gee…  a reply from the Administrator !  I feel So Special !   

OK…  seriously,…  Thanks for the lengthy information, Ande.

The email that I send to the CL sellers includes a link to my website.
THAT single email is the Only communication that I want with the seller.
I won't send any more emails to him, and I don't want to receive any reply email from him.
My website further helps him to sell his item, for free.

I suppose that I could run this Perl program from the website host server,
or I could run it from my home PC.  Is either one better than the other, for some reason?

Maybe I'm planning ahead too much…  if you think the entire thing is impossible.

Oooooooohhhhhhhh…  you might have a great idea, there…
I can create 10 Gmail accts, 10 Yahoo accts, 10 Hotmail accts…
And have the Perl script rotate thru them to send the emails.
(THAT is possible…  yes?)
I've already decided that the Perl script should have a random time lapse
(1 to 3 minutes) whilst browsing CL, in order to look like a real user. 
So, sending from DIFFERENT Gmail accts every (6?) minutes should not be a problem…  yes?
Did we just solve the emailing problem?

Now…  the Browsing…
Again…  I only want CL to think that I'm browsing in Dallas, or wherever.
The Perl script will scan the website, click to open a seller's ad page, then random pause, then click on the Mailto link.
That's all I want it to do.
DO I WANT to get anything BACK from CL ?  I don't think so.
WHAT do I want or need to get back from CL ?

If I'm barkin' up the wrong tree…  OK.
Do I need to start learning everything I can about VPN and/or VPS ?
I can't afford sh1t right now, but my website IS a Terrrific (potential ) money-maker.
Let me know if you think you can solve these problems, and want to make some $.

You (and Kulverstukas earlier) mentioned disabling Java… 
I recall reading somewhere that if you do have Java on your machine… 
even if you temporarily disable it… 
there are holes / backdoors thru which Java stuff can still be run.
Are you aware of that?

Thanks very much for your thoughts, people.

If this site of yours is a somewhat legit page, I fail to see why you cant use a PHP/perl/python script on your web server. That would most defiantly be the best solution to this. Then the only IP that will be traceable is your web server's. And remember, its not illigal to send emails.

For the multiple email provider idea; Yes, that is very much possible. However, most of the providers you listed(gmail, hotmail etc) will disable your accounts within days if you do that 24/7. Even if you got 1000 accounts, they do not care of accounts, they cross check your IP.


For the browsing. Even if you do not want any packets back, its not possible. Because of the way TCP connections work, the three-way handshake before any data may be exchanged. SYN, SYN-ACK, ACK. That means your IP/network/computer have to send SYN, recive SYN-ACK and send ACK back before information is exchanged, and by that time your IP has been logged ages ago, and you cannot spoof your IP after the handshake, that would make the current session invalid. Proxy is the only way to go, either its a VPS proxy, random proxy or VPN.

[FatFish]

D A R N !

Well…  I appreciate the idea that you guys are blowing holes thru my theories, 'cause…
When we arrive at a plan that ya' can't blow a hole thru,
THEN we have a Winner !

The website is Completely legit. 
This is a BRILLIANT business plan that WILL work…
The only problem is that I MUST use CL !
The profit potential is Enormous.
And (this you may or may not know)… 
CL is NOT interested in having any business partnerships.
CL management is not interested in becoming billionaires.
That's why CL remains very a simple website…  no banner ads, etc…
They already make over $20 million/year, just from the few ads that they charge for.
And with maybe 45 employees…  $20 mill is plenty for their needs, they say.

Emailing from the one website server probably won't work, because…
In the ONE CL location that I've been actually working this project,
I find about 300 new ads per day that I am interested in.
300 emails per day is not a big deal.
And with the (random) time lapse between each email,
It would take about 10 hours to send them all…  thus, we're not running 24/7.

However…  when this thing is fully operational,
and I expand to the other 600? CL locations around the country…
EACH of them might have about 300 ads…  that's a total of 180,000 emails per day.
Some people Might consider that Bulk email / spam.   

I understand…  the "handshake" thing between computers.
OK…  can't spoof browser IP info.  D a r n.

OK…  I guess I'll start studying VPS / VPN stuff.

Thanks very much for the continued conversations, people.

p.s.  If you can make this work, please PM or email me.

[ande]

I am guessing like 10-20 servers could put out 180k emails pr 24 hours. Its still alot, but if its "legit". Should be fine. However, I am also guessing you cant afford 10-20 servers But consider starting in the small, then grow your way from there. These servers doesn't need to be expensive. You can get the cheapest ones you can find.

[WarFox]

If your doing anything illegal just find a neighbor you dont like with WEP or unsecured internet and use the macchanger package on line ot spoof your mac address and use their network.

[xor]

Ande, a single server could put out 180k e-mails in 24 hours. You just have to make sure you go through proper channels, have reverse DNS setup on the server and make sure that all the headers are set correctly.

There's no need to spoof anything if you're performing a legit business operation.

[ande]

Ande, a single server could put out 180k e-mails in 24 hours. You just have to make sure you go through proper channels, have reverse DNS setup on the server and make sure that all the headers are set correctly.

There's no need to spoof anything if you're performing a legit business operation.

Sure, but if you do not do legit bidniz, you probably dont want the attention of 180k emails from one server