I need a life advice [+this topic will go wrong]

[jdihzy]

Yeah, i asked this very same question on the following places:

stackoverflow
stackexchange
devshed (a forum on programming and development in general)

and given the effect my question caused on those i have all the reasons to believe that this topic will go wrong, that, plus the fact that this is my very first post on this forum.
Well, i have to try anyway, and i'll keep doing that as long as i don't get an answer. Now you might be asking why am i trying to get "life advice" on programming communities? Soon you will understand, please, be patient.

Facts about me:
1. I'm 22 years old, i'm a high school drop-out with social issues.
2. I just quit my job because i've realized that the system slaves us and i'm pissed about it.
3. There is a way to break free, being a self-employed programmer.

Facts about my life:
1. I live with my parents and they don't believe in freedom, they're the "perfect citizens" models, work on day jobs and are grateful for the chance of a good life that the system gave them.
2. So they don't believe that a human being can have a job such as "freelance programmer", this just doesn't and will not get inside their heads.
3. I will not make them happy unless i show results or get in a day job just like they do.
4. By results i mean "money".
5. I started programming two months ago and the language is python.
6. I can understand pretty much anything in the Python's Tutorial.
7. And classes and objects.
8. I'm not genius, but i am smart. I've learned guitar and english by my own.
9. I'm fascinated about programming and all the amazing stuff that happens when you learn it.

Doesn't seem like i have a problem right? But i do.

The problems:
1. I have no clue how the freelance business work, i have no clue how long it will take until i can show some results (Even a small amount of money would be OK to show them that it is possible, they don't believe in me, i have to prove it)
2. By not knowing how long it will take, i'm in a very unstable state of mind. At monday i wake up like "Fuck this shit, i'll just focus on coding and it will eventually happen)
3. Tuesday i wake up like "Man, you're being idiotic and unrealistic, go get a life. "
4. The problem is, of course, the "eventually" word in item number 2.
5. It might take a year, 2 months, 5 months, until i achieve the "enlightenment" and say to myself "That's it, i will get a contract now. "
6. I have no experience in the business of programming at all. i am completely and absolutely clueless.

The main problem:
- I could get a day job and code on my free time until things happens. But i have a lot of free time now and I GOTTA take advantage on it. Once i a get a day job things will get a lot harder because i will be just delaying the accomplishment of my goal.
My mom isn't going to kick me out of her house but i feel bad for being here and not contributing with anything (money) so, if it really takes that long to become a freelance programmer, i will HAVE to get a ridiculous day job and do you have any clue how hard it is going to be to achieve this goal of mine WHILE having a day job unrelated to programming?

If i could only make like 300$ bucks monthly that would be MORE than enough to prove that it can be done and i wouldn't feel bad anymore, because then they would have something to believe and they wouldn't see me as a useless anymore.
How long you guys think it's gonna take? Am i being delusional or idiotic? Give me the truth please.

PS: (Before you get the wrong ideia of me, i'm not a stupid idiotic motherfucker that can't stand work, i did a lot of manual labor work in this life even on civil construction but i just decided i want the "easy" way this time)


If you made it until here and decided not to post, at least send a positive though about my situation.
Thank you.

[Fur]

I'd recommend you allot as much time as you can spare to reading books on computer science and contributing to open source projects (looks good on your CV and you'll gain XP in the process).

If all else fails, you could always sell malware to skids

[proxx]

5. I started programming two months ago and the language is python.

I could say a lot about the rest of the post but to be frank with you ; your hardly a programmer.
Get a regular  job , gain experience in your spare time, maybe do some classes and move on.
Your trying to run when you cant walk.

[RedBullAddicted]

Hai,

I think I can't deliver any informations of value for you. I do not earn money with coding and I have no clue about the chances for someone like you in this field. Only advice is that you maybe shouldn't focus on python. I would suggest something like c/c++ or java as there are more jobs available and companies are searching for ppl. with a good knowledge about those languages. Don't get me wrong.. I really like python cause it is the language I finaly managed to get things done with.

Cheers,
RBA

[Axon]

I think the real problem here is the fact that you are being stubborn and reluctant to accept the reality of our modern ara, this is the 21st century, wake up and get a real life job, stop living in your tiny box.

My advice to you is.
1- Get a real job to sustain yourself until you find a reliable alternative.
2- Learn Java and start developing android apps and sell them, you can also use your knowledge to develop Blackberry apps too. They are rely on Java, not to mention engaging in open source projects for the sake of gaining experience.
3- Stop watching/reading conspiracy theories movies and books. This is why I think you got the notion that the system enslaves the people. I would like to read your thoughts on why you think the system enslaves us.

[proxx]

I think the real problem here is the fact that you are being stubborn and reluctant to accept the reality of our modern ara, this is the 21st century, wake up and get a real life job, stop living in your tiny box.

My advice to you is.
1- Get a real job to sustain yourself until you find a reliable alternative.
2- Learn Java and start developing android apps and sell them, you can also use your knowledge to develop Blackberry apps too. They are rely on Java, not to mention engaging in open source projects for the sake of gaining experience.
3- Stop watching/reading conspiracy theories movies and books. This is why I think you got the notion that the system enslaves the people. I would like to read your thoughts on why you think the system enslaves us.

I second point 1,3.
@ OP

Point 1,
wake up bro.
Personally had plenty of shit jobs just to support myself, its what you put into it.
There where always those who saw potential in me so I got better functions , more responsability etc.
Its freaking game , we all know it, we all play it.

Point 3,
Its not that I dont agree with such a statement perse but not without proper argumentation.

[techb]

I agree with all the responses.

Grow up and be responsable. Welcome to the real world. The world of adulthood. Although I can't really say that since your parents are paying for everything.

You wanna make money programming? Get a degree in conputer science or gain the experience to put on a resume. Telling people you been coding in 1 language for a year or 2 is nothing but word. Work on existing projects like Twisted or Django and prove with your own work your worth the money they would be paying for.

This whole "stick it to the man" crap is worthless. The people and company you could be working for be it Havok game engine company or Burger King all had an idea and plan and went with it. Your working for successful people that know what real work is.

Either grow some balls and take responsibility for your life or live under a bridge. Your choise. Your mommy and daddy will only be there for so long giving you hand outs.

Me and my wife don't pay rent and bills by ideas. We work. I am 23 and own both my car and hers, pay all my bills and support 2 animals and have been doing so since I was 17. It is called work. Sure I started out in Subway making sandwiches, but ended up making decent money doing sonething that I don't hate. Sure its not ideal, but it pays the bills. I will eventually be supporting my family doing what I love,  but that is eventually. It will take more work to get where I'm going than any one wants to do. The problem is most people are lazy and have this shitty idea that things just get handed to them.

I'm sure this response is much like the others you have gotten everywhere you've asked. Maybe you shouldn't be looking for the golden answer to solve all your problems and take the advice given and run with it. You have thoughts and opnions from professionals doing exactly what you wanna do, take what they say and apply it and do some fucking work.

[Deque]

I think you don't realize how much work it is. Therefor it is good that you ask people who probably know.

You say you want to go the "easy" way --> it is not easier to be freelancer. Why do you think so?

You say you want to know how much time you need to invest until you can start earning money --> it is impossible to tell you that exactly, but you need at least some years to get a decent knowledge in programming. Knowing one language isn't enough. There is much more to software engineering than the language you use or classes and objects in a tutorial: Data structures, algorithms, the basics in math you need in order to understand how they work and when to use these, basics in theoretical computerscience (regular expressions, automata theory, ...), design patterns, versioning control systems, the basics about operating systems, parallel computing, mathematical logic, ...
This list is probably not everything. But for the most part you need to get more experience in projects and that is something that needs time.

I could create my first real project after two years of programming and that was far from being able to program for a company (in my opinion) as I didn't know how to work with Git or how to do unit tests or proper logging.

Why not do a job where you can learn programming? That will bring you closer to your goal becoming a freelancer and satisfy your parents.
Alternatively you can do a half-time job in something else and use the freetime to learn programming.

4. The problem is, of course, the "eventually" word in item number 2.

I don't think you mean "eventually" (look up the word, it is a false friend--at least in my language), but you mean "maybe" or "possibly"

[Neea]

My honest opinion, you're dreaming right now, and from where you're standing, at the bottom of Everest, you're dreaming to be on the top in very short time.
You see being a freelancer in programming is a long, hard road. Knowing one language won't help you much, if you don't understand whats happening behind it, and python is a high level language, and also it is interpreted. You will not use python to code everything, especially if you're a freelancer. Of course, then you have the choice of choosing what projects you want to do, but you'll do like 10% of all available ones if you know only python.
To be a freelancer in web development is more realistic than one in programming. But regardless you need to read and to work a lot. Making money won't come easy from programming.
I have higher knowledge in 2 programming languages and relatively know another 5 ones, and i still don't earn money from programming. (Well i did get a one month job for making website and earned a few bucks, but thats web development (not something i particularly want to do in life)).
Anyway in my opinion, get a regular job, any job, maybe even in programming, go to a company, get an unpaid training, do good and maybe get hired, since you have so much time on your hands, learn and read a lot ... i would even suggest online free classes and such from universities, and basically work hard if being a freelancer is your goal in life.
There is no shortcut, there is no easy way either you work in the system or outside it it's the same thing, you need to work, and work and work.
Cheers, and good luck.

[kenjoe41]

They most probably have said everything and i made a failed attempt to draw a road to a programming life that still needs some work but may do now.HERE...

I personally nearly reached a point of no return from my comfort place. My dad provided everything for me even if he had me talking about it in a dream, it would be there next morning with no fuss.
But at a certain point in time, you need to man up n get the hell out of your dad/mom 's house. If it means sleeping on the streets then do it. Trust me, i have some experience on the streets.

Programming is a very long journey and people need to look at some papers with alot of recommendations from others to even consider you for a job. Programming is gonna take you places but with python only and two months of practice ain't gonna even get you out of yo papa's house.
So out of good faith n love for your self, get the hell out of your comfort zone and get any Job(s). As long as it can sustain you to rent a small room then you could provide for any needs one by one as you go on and get more contacts.
You will most probably still have alot of free time after your work before your life gets serious with kids and there momma. So keep the faith and code even more with your time.
This is most probably your life so try to please yourself and the parents will accept you that way. Which means GET A FRICKIN' JOBS. No matter what job it is, as long as it pays.

[jdihzy]

Hey guys. Thank you very much for your answers.
I just wanna make one thing clear, i have always worked, i just came back to live with my parents like 4 months ago, i know how the "real life" looks like...

But again, yeah, i was probably dreaming, i'm getting a job and moving out next week and will keep learning on my free time.

And about the "slavery" thing, no, i don't buy that shit Davic Icke sells, but our human brains aren't supossed to live a boring routine, we used to live between life and death fighting against the dangers of the wild place the earth was, that's why we love sports and video-games, they satisfy that part of our brain and what we do (routine jobs) are totally against it and tell me how it is not slavery (being forced to do something that you're not even supossed to..)

Whatever...



Thanks again.

[hackias]

I am a self employed programmer working from my home bedroom, I still live with my mummy .  So perhaps I have good input on this matter.  This last month I just finished a job with an invoice worth 3046 GBP.

You want to know my secret.  I built my own framework which spans C++, Php and Java.  Basically when people want software and/or web apps developed, I plug elements of my framework together, polish it, pack it and deliver it.

For 18 months I was living off 50 GBP a week (nothing) but now I am financially stable.  I could not take a job for another year and I'd still be comfortable.

After I built my own framework (because I'm a control freak like this, I always want it my way, my code and no third party).  I started marketing myself on freelancer.com etc.  I purchased a trademark with my government IP office to stamp over my framework.

I did some jobs for various people, minute amounts of money to begin with until I could acquire feedback.  At present my average income is 3000GBP a month thus my average mean salary is 36000GBP which for my age is okay.

when people see my software OR other peoples/business software (they see my trademark .  Now I do jobs for individuals and between contracts, I work on my private projects which will make me substantial amounts of money before long.

I have a computer scientist honours degree and ICT background (raw coding as a kid) and CS insight as a teen/adult.  I worked my arse off and it got hard living in a room 16 hours a day but it is now worth it.  I expect to be in 6/7 digits within 18 months the way things are going and my excel sheet growth is predicting.

1. Learn a web technology, software language and train your eye for design
2. Learn how to invoice and do some spreadsheet planning
3. Market yourself on freelance websites
4. Buy a phone, put a professional voice message on it for clients
 - Many clients never call but the option-to is professional (I never answer the phone unless a client leaves a message first)
5. Record ALL income for legality
6. Learn how to write good cover letters
7. Discipline yourself, no youtube or xbox etc, be realistic and persist

Tip: I strongly recommend Java, I've never had a client ask for Python OR Ruby albeit some require PHP work.  Mostly it is Java as it is an industry standard.  Personally I dislike Java but it pays the bills.

Also paying more attention to branding and identity is often more than code detail or efficiency (yeah I know), but clients with the money only ever see the front-end and thw wow-factor, design is paramount.

Have fun.  I could disclose more but as any business guy will tell you, never give away ALL your secrets but I think what I have said is enough.