Author Topic: Fukushima - what is the truth  (Read 723 times)

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Offline gray

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Fukushima - what is the truth
« on: August 27, 2014, 08:43:52 pm »
I have always been fascinated by Chernobyl. I couldn't point out what exactly interested me, was it the effects of an enormous power gone out of control? The easiness with which humans could destroy themselves and the planet? The spark of genius that led to the invention of nuclear technologies? I couldn't say. I didn't try to better understand nuclear technology, I just felt content with watching Chernobyl documentaries, watch the desolate area and wonder about the danger hidden deep inside, and marvel at the surrounding nature that tries to reclaim its course. This interest waned for a while, until I regained it by, you will laugh, playing the STALKER games. There was something in them, the atmosphere, that rekindled my earlier fascination with Chernobyl. This also prompted me to watch the movie and read the novel. But I will get more to the point of this post now. Just wanted to add some background to this post.

When the earthquake in Japan happened in 2011, I followed the developments more keenly than I would have for another disaster because I had a personal connection with the country, having been there and knowing people there. Eventually, the things improved somewhat, and I was impressed by the Japanese ability to recover and move forward in such a short time. I was also relieved to see that none of my friends there were hurt. Then I stopped looking into it, feeling that things were under control. I also didn't exhibit the same interest for Fukushima as I did for Chernobyl. I was happy to see things didn't escalate in an even more serious disaster, and let it go.

To my shame, the reason I am writing this now and looked more into it after 3 years since the initial incident is not some sudden scientific interest, or detached curiosity. Being convinced that all is well, I didn't feel the need to investigate it further. But I've been granted a scholarship, and I am going to move to Tokyo shortly, for a period of 1.5 years. And someone brought up to me the discussion about Fukushima and the danger of radiation in the Eastern area of Japan. In my comfortable ignorance, I was surprised by this and quickly wanted to discard it by proving that the crisis is over and all is well. And what better way to do that than some quick research on the internet?

That was 2 days ago, and what I thought would be a 30 min break from my other activities, turned out to be 2 full days of reading, watching, and talking about what I discovered. And the more I did that, the more worried I became. And the more I marveled about how I stayed so blissfully ignorant about such a matter, even though I knew I would be going to Tokyo for some time.

However, this is the internet, and one can't take everything at face value. I always laughed at the doomsday preachers and the people who expected apocalypse because it was predicted by X, the planets are aligned in the Y formation, and all such nonsense (in my opinion). But when I tried to ascertain whether Fukushima is a danger to Tokyo, it actually became clear that it's a much higher danger to the entire world than I thought.

Below I will drop some links with a quick summary. But I am not knowledgeable in such matters. As such, I may not be able to discern accurate information from fabricated lies / overreaction / mere speculations. What worries me might be quickly disregarded by people with more know-how. Of course, I would be happy if that were the case.

# Physician warning about the contamination of the soil and food in Tokyo
http://www.naturalnews.com/046112_radiation_fukushima_tokyo.html

# Rising cancer cases attributed to Fukushima radiation
http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/2014/04/07/japanese-physicians-link-spike-in-cancer-to-fukushima-radiation/

# Fragments from Japanese newspapers (in English of course) about the situation at Fukushima
http://enenews.com/pro-nuclear-newspaper-seriousness-current-situation-fukushima-be-understated-report-unmitigated-radiation-pouring-pacific-video-dont-stop-radioactive-leaks-never-stop?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

# The title says it all
http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20140823/192281175/Physicists-Say-Fukushima-Reactors-Pose-Eternal-Threat-to.html

# More information about Fukushima, including the government trying to withhold information from the public (what a surprise)
https://news.vice.com/article/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be

# Symptoms attributed to radiation
http://enenews.com/time-doctor-links-recent-outbreaks-mysterious-rashes-fukushima-cancer-specialist-societal-pressure-mention-word-radiation-video-huge-number-cancers-already-govt-actively-engaged-safety-propagand

# Some of the lies of TEPCO (the company responsible for Fukushima maintenance and cleanup)
http://enenews.com/japan-times-sources-reveal-fukushima-radiation-cover-up-tepco-has-hid-data-on-about-record-levels-since-july-official-something-like-this-cannot-happen

http://www.naturalnews.com/041881_fukushima_radiation_leaks_deception.html

Most, if not all of these, are from 2014, so fairly recent and relevant, in my opinion.

And here are some more random things that I recall reading:

- Tepco was falsifying documents pertaining to nuclear plants, to avoid costs and inspections. To lower the costs, they apparently used duct tape to seal some leaking pipes inside the plant. They also knew about the reactors entering meltdown after the earthquake, but insisted all is well and didn't report it until some time after

- One of the ways the Japanese government has tried to persuade its citizens that there is no danger was by telling them to smile, because radiation doesn't affect happy people (this is too good so here's a link)
http://www.naturalnews.com/041720_fukushima_radiation_japanese_government_propaganda_brainwashing.html

- The destruction of the plant by an earthquake or the incapacity of the authorities to keep cooling the reactors might turn into a worldwide disaster that would affect the entire world. Also, the radiation released would render North America and Canada uninhabitable (again, this is something I have no sufficient knowledge to comment about)

- The Pacific ocean is poisoned by the contaminated water that is being tossed down into the ocean ( I read somewhere about figures like 200 to 400 gallons every day).

- There is no international organization helping Japan to solve this crisis, mainly because the Japanese are refusing assistance? I don't know if that is the case, but how could the other countries of the world stay silent in the wake of such an ongoing disaster, and with the potential to do even more destruction? This I find terrifying, if it really is the case.

- If you ask the Japan government, all is well. The radiation in Tokyo is lower than in other cities of the world. The rice grown in Fukushima after rice paddy decontamination is tested and perfectly safe to eat. The situation is under control.

There is much more to this subject, but the length of this post exceeds safety limits already ( I picked up some nuclear lingo, it seems).

I don't have a conclusion, or even a question to end this post with (there would be too many of them). I am just wondering about what might be true, and what are just exaggerations born of fear. Of course, I am also thinking about my safety. The media coverage is very modest when it comes to what might be a bigger nuclear disaster than Chernobyl. In Japan, that may be understandable, because they apparently have a law that spells prison for sharing what they deem state sensitive information. It's called the state secrets law or something like that. But I can't believe the rest of the world is ignoring this. Unless the danger really isn't that serious. Wouldn't that be good, but I am skeptical.


Offline Phage

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Re: Fukushima - what is the truth
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2014, 06:17:42 pm »
Finally a topic about nuclear energy and radiation, +1 for that bringing it on.

I haven't read the links you provided (sorry), but I'm trying to write this reply on a computer, which freezes every 10 seconds, so browsing the web is not really comfortable.

I have a hard time believing that the accident in 2011 stills persist a life threat to the people of Tokyo. This is due to half the Tokyo not being evacuated. I know that all the radiation impossibly can't be away by now, but still...

If you want me to give a more detailed explanation (with scientific proves) as to why I don't really believe you should be worried, let me know, and I will get my hands on another computer.
"Ruby devs do, in fact, get all the girls. No girl wants a python, but EVERY girl wants rubies" - connection

"It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter’s Law."

Offline Pak_Track

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Re: Fukushima - what is the truth
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 07:56:51 pm »
Finally a topic about nuclear energy and radiation, +1 for that bringing it on.

I haven't read the links you provided (sorry), but I'm trying to write this reply on a computer, which freezes every 10 seconds, so browsing the web is not really comfortable.

I have a hard time believing that the accident in 2011 stills persist a life threat to the people of Tokyo. This is due to half the Tokyo not being evacuated. I know that all the radiation impossibly can't be away by now, but still...

If you want me to give a more detailed explanation (with scientific proves) as to why I don't really believe you should be worried, let me know, and I will get my hands on another computer.
I'm on a phone; imagine that :P
Radiation can result in long term complications i.e cancer, deformed births, etc. People still face problems from the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings, today.
On a whole, I do not favour any nuclear development in a country with a population:area ratio as steep as Japan. It's risky, and the consequences of a fallout or accident will be much higher.
Your opinions? And boy I wish mordred was here.
P.S How the hell do you give a +1 with Tapatalk?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 07:58:43 pm by Pak_Track »

'Life is but a series of conflicts between the easy way and the right way.'
The more you know, the more you'll realize you know nothing. -Snayler
The problem with being a smart motherfucker is that sometimes the stupid motherfuckers think you're a crazy motherfucker.
dont u hate it when you offer help and the other person says yes -Pakalu Papito

Offline gray

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Re: Fukushima - what is the truth
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2014, 03:18:00 pm »
Glad that humongous post didn't scare people away!

@Phage I picked up a few pieces of info about radiation and nuclear power plants during my search, but not enough to have a clear picture. If you have the time and the disposition to educate me further on the subject, I would appreciate it!

@Pak_Track In my opinion, Japan is playing with fire where nuclear power is concerned. Here's a map with the nuclear power plants in Japan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Japan_nuke_plant_map

The biggest problem is that it's a country prone to earthquakes, and there's no telling how many of the power plants have design faults, or are just old, to be safe. I read somewhere that the Fukushima power plant had some flaw in its design, that the company didn't deem important enough to correct. Also, the way they handled the incident and kept information from the public doesn't make them too trustworthy.

From a rational standpoint, I too would agree that the background danger couldn't be that high. Tokyo would have to be evacuated, and this incident is already more international than domestic. It's not some mountain village that can be kept in the dark about the underlying danger. Also, if the reactors pose a threat to North America, it wouldn't make sense for them to sit on their asses and just hope for the best.

There is also the fact that Fukushima may be in cold shutdown, but the damaged reactors need continuous cooling (and failure to do so may result in another, or even bigger disaster). Their latest idea is to build a wall of ice to contain it. They also need to remove the fuel rods, which is an in-progress operation. I think it's supposed to be completed by the end of the year, if all goes without incidents. But the underground radiation is supposedly reaching to high depths, and there is fear that it may eventually contaminate Tokyo's aquifer (again, this is not something much discussed in Japan).

My main concern will be the food, as I will have no way of really knowing where it came from. For things bought in supermarkets I can check the labels (although relabeling might obfuscate the true origin of the food). But for restaurants and the like, I can't really barge in with a Geiger counter and demanding papers that attest the safety of all they have in store

I am thinking to bring some potassium iodine pills with me just in case, and buying a Geiger counter, if I can find one for cheap. Always wanted to have one, but more for the thrill and curiosity, not actual experience.

All things being said, I will surely be suspicious about everything while the Fukushima problem remains unresolved:

*rain*
Does it carry radiation from Fukushima?

*wind*
Does it come from the direction of Fukushima?

*food*
Did this [random food] grow in irradiated soil / eat irradiated food / swim in irradiated water?

*insects*
A mosquito bite! Was it a radioactive mosquito?

*earthquake*
To the airport!

Fun fun

Offline Phage

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Re: Fukushima - what is the truth
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2014, 04:59:36 pm »
I'm on a phone; imagine that :P
Radiation can result in long term complications i.e cancer, deformed births, etc. People still face problems from the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings, today.
On a whole, I do not favour any nuclear development in a country with a population:area ratio as steep as Japan. It's risky, and the consequences of a fallout or accident will be much higher.
Your opinions? And boy I wish mordred was here.
P.S How the hell do you give a +1 with Tapatalk?

I'm not sure if you know it, but I've actually written a paper about nuclear energy and it's risks, no need to educate me about it ;) Nuclear energy and radiation is something that I'm highly interested in, so yeah...

And to your question, stop using Taptalk and open the website in a browser?

@gray, give me an hour or two, and I'll have something ready.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 05:00:15 pm by Phage »
"Ruby devs do, in fact, get all the girls. No girl wants a python, but EVERY girl wants rubies" - connection

"It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter’s Law."

Offline Pak_Track

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Re: Fukushima - what is the truth
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2014, 05:32:05 pm »
I'm not sure if you know it, but I've actually written a paper about nuclear energy and it's risks, no need to educate me about it ;) Nuclear energy and radiation is something that I'm highly interested in, so yeah...

And to your question, stop using Taptalk and open the website in a browser?

@gray, give me an hour or two, and I'll have something ready.
Nah, browsers are slow.
I too, am quite an avid reader of nuclear delivery systems. Don't you think that nuclear plants, or any development for that matter should be set up away from population?
Be sure to give me the link to that paper :)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 06:12:25 pm by Pak_Track »

'Life is but a series of conflicts between the easy way and the right way.'
The more you know, the more you'll realize you know nothing. -Snayler
The problem with being a smart motherfucker is that sometimes the stupid motherfuckers think you're a crazy motherfucker.
dont u hate it when you offer help and the other person says yes -Pakalu Papito

Offline Phage

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Re: Fukushima - what is the truth
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2014, 06:16:23 pm »
@Pak_Track, if you can read Danish, I'm sure you'd love that paper :P Well, I do believe that people are too scared of nuclear energy. The new level 5 reactors can even withstand a direct hit of an airplane. I know, that the older power plants, doesn't have that level of security, but the chances of them melting down is extremely small. It's one of the most controlled environments on earth.

Okay, I've been looking deeper into the case of the accident at Fukishima Daiichi. My research, has only been pointing in one direction, you have nothing to fear. The 167 workers at the nuclear power plant, who received the highest dose of radiation, is estimated to only have a slightly bigger chance of developing cancer. After the Chernobyl accident, only 0.1% of the 110,000 cleanup workers surveyed have so far developed leukemia, although not all cases resulted from the accident. And the amount of radiation being exposed to the environment, was much higher at that disaster.

Also, according to the Japanese government, 180,592 people were screened for radiation exposure, and none of the screened people were found with result that affected their health. And to put things in perspective, there hasn't been reported a single death related to the accident, but the earth quake, which sparkled the accident has been estimated to kill about 18,500 people. A study from Stanford University in 2012, estimated that the accident COULD cause 130 deaths globally, so far none has been reported.

As of 2014, a peer reviewed estimate of the total radiation released was 340 to 800 PBq, with 80% falling into the Pacific ocean. As a comparison, 5,200 PBq, was released after the Chernobyl accident. Remember, the power plant has been shut down too.

I do also think it's worth mentioning, that the only two deaths directly related to the accident, was caused by drowning and not radiation sickness.

I don't know where exactly in Tokyo you're going to live, but to me, it seems that you have nothing to fear.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 06:22:26 pm by Phage »
"Ruby devs do, in fact, get all the girls. No girl wants a python, but EVERY girl wants rubies" - connection

"It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter’s Law."

Offline Pak_Track

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Re: Fukushima - what is the truth
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2014, 06:28:44 pm »
Gray: I find you a bit paranoid after reading Phage's post :P
Phage, bring it on. Google translate knows Danish.
And Airplanes aren't really designed to take out reactors. Missiles, maybe..
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 07:00:33 pm by Pak_Track »

'Life is but a series of conflicts between the easy way and the right way.'
The more you know, the more you'll realize you know nothing. -Snayler
The problem with being a smart motherfucker is that sometimes the stupid motherfuckers think you're a crazy motherfucker.
dont u hate it when you offer help and the other person says yes -Pakalu Papito

Offline gray

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Re: Fukushima - what is the truth
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2014, 07:02:04 pm »
@Phage Thanks for the additional info. I looked into some statistics too, and all appears to be well, at least for the moment. Of course, I have a hard time trusting them after some of their earlier misinformation, but they couldn't make up numbers for something so serious either, especially since the international community is also keeping an eye on the Fukushima developments.

@Pak_Track Now I'm chill, you should have seen me the first day. Someone was complaining about I don't remember what, and I said "That's no big deal, I'm going just 300 km away from a nuclear apocalypse. I'll come back with extra arms."

I am still interested in bringing a Geiger counter with me though  ;D