Author Topic: CO2 explosion extinguish fire?  (Read 1335 times)

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Offline Roxanne Brown

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CO2 explosion extinguish fire?
« on: October 21, 2015, 01:20:10 pm »
Will throwing a can of compressed CO2 extinguish a fire? I mean if it explodes. It should be liquid CO2 right? Does that work? Or will it worsen the situation?

Offline straycat

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Re: CO2 explosion extinguish fire?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2015, 02:42:54 pm »
Heating a can of compressed gas is a bad idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyle's_law


Offline Roxanne Brown

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Re: CO2 explosion extinguish fire?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2015, 03:04:03 pm »
Ikr, but does the xplosion douse the fire? After all it isn't in the sense of flaming ball explosion. It is just the release of compressed CO2? But thnx
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 03:04:28 pm by Roxanne Brown »

Offline proxx

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Re: CO2 explosion extinguish fire?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2015, 03:19:43 pm »
Ikr, but does the xplosion douse the fire? After all it isn't in the sense of flaming ball explosion. It is just the release of compressed CO2? But thnx

Yes in theory this would be the case, if you can flood out the oxygen fast enough the thermal reaction will grind to a halt.
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Offline Roxanne Brown

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Re: CO2 explosion extinguish fire?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2015, 03:57:53 pm »
Ty, but y only in theory? And will the gas "wave" disperse the flames? I'd love to try this out in the lab. :P

Offline Darkvision

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Re: CO2 explosion extinguish fire?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2015, 06:15:33 pm »
Ok im gonna tackle this one somewhat akin to how an XKCD whatif is tackled. In stages, and in various magnitudes. The fact i have to do it this way to even BEGIN to answer how bad of an idea this is, should tell you that this is a bad idea. A very very bad idea. Such a bad idea that this:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGH7J53sts8Is a GOOD idea in comparison.

I should also say as just base information that I'm assuming you are talking about a class A(Alpha) fire. Anything else and this whole ordeal gets worse because of what makes those fires run. Well i guess the exception would be a class C(Charlie) fire. Also known as an electrical fire. I'm rather sure trying to blow up an electrical fire to stop it would indeed stop it as you would almost certainly deprive it of power as high speed projectiles tore through that very fancy machinery and you.(this will come up more later)

So one thing we need to note at this point is that class A fires create a lot of hot burning embers that can ignite other flammable material. moving them from one point to another, even at high speed doesnt douse them, meaning you will likely be spreading a fire from one location to EVERYWHERE. This also isnt YOUR biggest problem.

You see CO2 canisters are made out of metal when one structurally fails  even WITHOUT heating(meaning its MUCH more energetic) it is just no good for anything near it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KuE8aFjR8UThat wasnt because of a FIRE that was just one idiot doing something stupid with a compressed "harmless" gas. Yours is going to be WORSE than that. Unfortunately for you and anyone else near it the shock-wave from the explosion is really the least of your worries. You see all that flammable material(say wood) is going to be flying through the air at considerable speed. Oh so is the metal that USED to surround that gas. its now flying at and through you at a high enough speed to go straight through you. Basically think about this like you would an explosive hand grenade going off near you. Excuse me, if your using a small canister like say for a paintball gun its like an anti-personnel hand grenade. A larger canister is...worse. But hey look at the bright side that fire is probably mostly out(for now).

Anyway given the above problems i dont think that your local fire fighters will be using this method to combat a fire any time soon. I should also note that it IS entirely possible that the top would fail first and it would just take off like a rocket and go through anything that isnt very very solid(you dont qualify) but hey at least all that metal is in one place, the fatality count should be MUCH smaller.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 06:17:08 pm by Darkvision »
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Offline 0E 800

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Re: CO2 explosion extinguish fire?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2015, 08:59:57 pm »
As Darkvision stated, there are multiple types of fires. In 99.9% of all fires, a CO2 canister that explodes would only make the fire worse (especially metal fires). All you would be doing is shooting debris and spreading the fire and causing harm to whoever is also trying to put out the fire.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 09:00:14 pm by 0E 800 »
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Offline proxx

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Re: CO2 explosion extinguish fire?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2015, 12:24:21 am »
Who said anything about preservation, if the shockwave is strong enough it will knock out the fire, which was the goal in the first place.

Also Darkvision , this could be effective eventhough it might be destructive, the video's you posted do nothing to reinforce any statement you made.

Not saying it is a good idea, but this is theory.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 12:26:27 am by proxx »
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Offline Darkvision

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Re: CO2 explosion extinguish fire?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2015, 03:26:50 am »
Who said anything about preservation, if the shockwave is strong enough it will knock out the fire, which was the goal in the first place.

Also Darkvision , this could be effective eventhough it might be destructive, the video's you posted do nothing to reinforce any statement you made.

Not saying it is a good idea, but this is theory.

Thats like saying e=mc^5(hippopotamus*rhombus) is a valid theory. Only if you understand nothing of the subject at hand can that look like a remotely good idea or to have any ability to work. Really i shouldnt even explain any of this further, and simply tell you to go take a fire safety class(most local fire stations do them at varying times) or to read up online about fires. Though this is one of the few instances where a class is better because they will often demonstrate the procedures AND let you do them as well(at least the good ones do). Fire safety can not only save your life, but the lives of those around you.  Think of it as learning emergency first aid, except this can save hundreds of lives at a time instead of just one. It is seriously that important. Instead of talking cut and dry about things like firewatches and why they are necessary(and hence why the whole "knock out the flames for two seconds" doesnt work), i will instead talk about a few other things that are VERY much related.

First off lets look at your good ol' charcoal grill. These coals are NOT on fire, they are smoldering. They are giving off enough heat to cook food...and yes set fire to it or anything else flammable close enough to it. When your shock wave knocks out the flames, because of the latent heat in the embers and coals that are now EVERYWHERE, it will do one of two things: set fire to new things or burn the things it already was. When you deprive a fire of oxygen its not for half a second and then your done, you have to CONTINUE to do so until it has cooled enough that it cant reignite or ignite something else. Again with that example after you finish grilling and put the lid on and close the vents you should STILL keep the grill in sight for at LEAST an hour to make sure something doesnt go wrong. because even an hour later without oxygen they are hot enough if knocked out of the grill to likely start a fire.

That shockwave is carrying with it embers metal and i am sure all sorts of wood that it can put through you. the fire is the least of your worries because shrapnel comes FIRST. After that you will be too dead to give a shit about a piddly ole fire everywhere. Want to see how effective shock waves are at putting out Class A/B/D fires? Here is something that to this day every US Navy sailor is required to watch in bootcamp. The story of the USS Forrestal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6NnfRT_OZA

Oh and i wasnt joking about the Class C thing earlier, it would technically when the electrical connection ceased from the shrapnel STOP being a Class C fire, it would then be most likely a Class A.
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Offline Okami817

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Re: CO2 explosion extinguish fire?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2015, 10:56:26 am »
Myth busters did this.  It does not work. 

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Offline Roxanne Brown

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Re: CO2 explosion extinguish fire?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2015, 04:25:24 pm »
Thanks guys, specially darkvision and proxx. Anyway, it was interesting. A free, open, inquisitive mind doesn't hurt. But is there anyway to extinguish a fire instantaneously? I've seen those fire extinguishers and hoses, they take like forever to tackle a fire. I've watched soundwave extinguishers and those chemical gel-spray stuff on the internet. Do they rly work?

Offline Darkvision

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Re: CO2 explosion extinguish fire?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2015, 04:54:44 am »
Thanks guys, specially darkvision and proxx. Anyway, it was interesting. A free, open, inquisitive mind doesn't hurt. But is there anyway to extinguish a fire instantaneously? I've seen those fire extinguishers and hoses, they take like forever to tackle a fire. I've watched soundwave extinguishers and those chemical gel-spray stuff on the internet. Do they rly work?

Yeah ive seen the whole sound wave thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d48Ww6AcMWc

The problem with something like this is note that they ignite a Class B fire, then immediately extinguish it. If it had been going for a while, like fires that get the fire department involved, it would likely reignite as soon as you turned the waves off, also the fact that he had to "chase" the flames with the sound makes this worse, especially the larger pool of fuel you have. With fire retardant foam it covers ALL of it to prevent it from reigniting so it can cool. While in the future this may very well be useful when its better developed id say their is at least another decade of R&D needed to make it practical/useful.
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Offline frog

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Re: CO2 explosion extinguish fire?
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2015, 03:37:02 am »
As a point of reference, carbon dioxide is not flammable. It is used as a propellant for potassium carbonate, which is the fire retardant found in fire extinguishers.

As for the sound-based fire extinguisher, it's pushing oxygen away from the fire using lower frequency sound waves. Sound waves can and do interact with matter(liquid, gas, and solid) in other ways as well; see 'cymatics' or 'coral castle'. It is probable the ancients moved large stones with the application of resonant frequency. In modern times it's called 'the hutchison effect.'

« Last Edit: October 24, 2015, 03:37:30 am by frog »