First Step ?

[asdqwezxc1]

@andre, thanks alot.

My plan is to learn python for base language then going into C++ to try to make/create hacks/trainers for games like maplestory and stuff. Then after going into HLA for cracking software and games. I know it will take years for me to learn all of this but i'm willing to spend my time learning.

What do you think of this plan for me ? Python > C++ > VC++ > HLA > Reverse Engineering.

And i'll be learning Java soon about next week since i'm taking up infocomm for my diploma will it mess up my head since i'm learning python on my own interest ? Because i was thinking i could take Java > C++ but it seems like it will be a harder way to learn C++ then learning python first. What do you guys think ?

[ande]

@andre, thanks alot.

My plan is to learn python for base language then going into C++ to try to make/create hacks/trainers for games like maplestory and stuff. Then after going into HLA for cracking software and games. I know it will take years for me to learn all of this but i'm willing to spend my time learning.

What do you think of this plan for me ? Python > C++ > VC++ > HLA > Reverse Engineering.

And i'll be learning Java soon about next week since i'm taking up infocomm for my diploma will it mess up my head since i'm learning python on my own interest ? Because i was thinking i could take Java > C++ but it seems like it will be a harder way to learn C++ then learning python first. What do you guys think ?

Python is a good language as a first language. Just keep in mind what I said, python is scripting and C++ is coding. Also VC++ and C++ is about the same, in fact, I would not recommend doing VC++ because it will bind you to the windows OS. VC++ is Microsoft version of C++. Not sure what you mean with HLA but reverse engineering after a bit of C++ basics is a good idea.

[atsuktuvas]

For a first language, it does not matter what your goals are. What matters is that you would learn the correct programming skills which are MUCH more important then any specific language syntax. Remember, learning programming is NOT equal to  learning programming language. Programming is about the techniques and methodologies, ways to turn a description into an algorithm, not just specific syntax of some language. If you are good at programming with python, you will find it easy to learn any language you wish. It will take less time to learn python and then C++, then to learn only C++ straight away. I have been coding for about 8 years now, and I can tell you from experience that it is much more logical to start with a simpler language like Python. (by the way, coding applies to both interpreted scripting languages like Python and compiled languages like C++. It doesn't matter if your program is a script or an executable, it is still a program and making it is still programming, don't let anyone tell you otherwise).

So, don't ask any more questions about the first language to learn. just do yourself a favour by learning Python before anything else, and after you have made loads of programs in it, then go on to some other language of your choice, depending on what you wanna do. Many people spend weeks trying to find the best language, and just wast their precious time. Don't wait or search anymore, just start learning. And don't stop. Everything worth acheiving will be hard and difficult to acheive.

Now, when it comes to reversing, cracking and object code modification (object code is complied code = executable program that can be run by your operating system) in almost all cases you will only be able to do it with Assembly, which is very low level language, just one step above ones and zeroes. However, don't worry about it until you learn at least one high level programming language proparly.

Good luck.

[lucid]

Also many people think that because its called a low-level language that means its easier. This is not the case at all. Python is a great language for beginners because it kind of bridges the gap between an organized computer language and natural human language. Assembly for example is all hex language(letters and numbers mixed together) and is overwhelming to try and read for a beginner. Python is much simpler than C or C++ and takes fewer lines of code. Its easy to get overwhelmed when your beginning.

I would also recommend Python....not that you need anyone else to recommend the same thing to you.

[asdqwezxc1]

Thanks for helping me so much for understands all what I needed to know!

@ande, i say HLA but i mean ASM.

About my diploma, what am I going to do about it ? Is it a bad idea that I learn both at the same time but will messed up my way of coding or after my diploma end then i take on learning python but would it be a waste .. ?

what do you guys think ? I read on some forum discussion they say that python and java is somewhat the same in coding.

[atsuktuvas]

Programming in almost all languages is quite simmilar. They all use same techniques and principles, like, variables, conditional statements, loops, modules/classes, control statements, functions and so on, so by learning how to use these proparly to come up with usefull and efficient algorithms is learning programming. And once you learn how to do this with one language, learning another one will be very easy.

If your diploma requires you to know some specific language, then by all means learn it, coz if you don't you won't pass

But if you have a choice in choosing a language, choose Python = easy, powerful, flexible, fun, fast to code, etc...

Many programming enthusiasts are switching to Python these days, because of how fun and fast it is to code in it, compared to say C/C++, where you have to always keep thinking about too many things at the same time. Those are great languages, but for what most people use programming, they are simply not required. If you plan to write hardware drivers, or large scale commercial applications, then yes, you will probably have to learn C or C++ eventually.

So, don't bother too much about the choice of a language, just start learning, and start learning as soon as possible. In the olden days, people used to start with assembly as their first language, and in the old but not so old days, with BASIC and Pascal. These days, you would have to be nuts to start with any of those, because they are either too time consuming to learn or too useless in this age.

So, what I am saying? Start with Python. If you can't for some reason, then just start with anything. You won't die.

[zohraan]

Every Programming Language is better to learn, than to be nothing, but as a learner Em really inspired from C++, its just awesome. I will suggest you start with C++ and after start, practice and practice, make yourself able to cover advanced things in C programming, after that it is better to touch other languages as well.

[Deque]

They all use same techniques and principles, like, variables, [...] loops, [...], control statements

You will see none of them in functional languages.

And once you learn how to do this with one language, learning another one will be very easy.

That is only true for languages of the same programming paradigm.

[atsuktuvas]

You will see none of them in functional languages.

Give me an example of a programming language that does not use loops, variables, and control statements.

In my entire life I have never come across such a language. Just does not make sense.

To be honest, I think you are drunk

[Deque]

Give me an example of a programming language that does not use loops, variables, and control statements.

In my entire life I have never come across such a language. Just does not make sense.

To be honest, I think you are drunk

functional: FP, Haskell
logical: Prolog (with the exception of variables)
imperative: ASM (with the exception of control statements)

Edit:
You should read the paper https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~crary/819-f09/Backus78.pdf from Backus Naur.
It is a bit sad, that people are so used to imperative programming that they fail to even recognize other concepts. Writing one statement after another is just one way of programming that proved as a good approach for everything that doesn't need to be parallelized. But parallel programming is a pain in the ass with imperative languages. Languages without side effects are much better suited for this purpose and will get more important, because we have hardware that works parallel.
And besides this advantage declarative is better readable. You might not say so as long as you are not used to it, but in imperative programming languages you are forced to perform the instructions step by step in your head to get any sense out of it, whereas the declarative way just decribes how the result is, not how to get to it.

In my opinion every advanced programmer should know at least one pure functional language, just to be not restricted to your own thinking.

@TO: Just choose one language and stick with it for a few years. Then you might ask again, what to do next. It doesn't really matter which language, because you don't have enough knowledge in programming yet to see your own preferences in it. Preferably choose a language you have a lot support for (books, teachers, friends who can help you).

[atsuktuvas]

I see what you mean.

But still, every language has variables, they are just not called variables and they have different properties. Can you define a constant in Haskell? Yes. Then it means it has variables, even if they MUST have a value at all times. Let me put it this way: If a Haskell program asks the user to enter his name and then it prints the name 10 times, where does it store the name? In the RAM. How does it recall the name data from the RAM when it needs to print the name 10 times? By the variable name. I could go on and on and get more detailed, but the fact remains the same: functional languages have variables, they are just used differently and have different properties.

Do you see what I am trying to say?

[Deque]

I see it. But there is nothing to argue about, because there are different views and definitions of what a variable is.
A variable is something that can change its value. That is why it is called "variable". Something that is immutable is not variable anymore and therefore not a variable. It is a definition or a constant. However, I know that some people refer to the x in Haskell's "x = 4" as an "immutable variable". For me this is a contradiction in itself.

Edit: An addition to  "x = 4" in Haskell: I wouldn't call that a constant either. It is a function that returns the value 4. Like writing this in Java: public int f(){return 4;}
Interestingly no one would ever get the idea to call a method in Java a variable or a constant.

[common]

Some hacking tricks and methods don't necessitate any prior knowledge in programming. But for making tools you need to be very knowledgeable in programming, not the kind of knowledge that you can get in hours or days 


Just a tip for you..

I have first hand experience at getting into "Hacking" (hate that word) in the way Axon and others in some other post i read and cant find have eluded to....

which effectively amounted to:

Just pursue your interests

For me it really started with breaking my mums computer through stupid shit like
 - removing all file permissions on all files.....result = broken (pre xp days)
 - deleteing all the files in the registry.... result = broken 
 - enabling all security poilicies and locking myself out of the comp..  result = locked out
Then I'd always have to read my arse off to try n fix it before she got home......

I'd always at the minimum understand the problem i had caused even if most of the time fixing it without a format/reinstall was beyond my skill set.

and i always broke it pursueing stuff i was interested in
just exploring the computer wondering what shit was for, wondering how to do shit, and just poking around.

-bat scripts to automate crap....
-VB macros in excell....

Nothing ever origional bit of code here bit of code there (copy paste copy paste) hours reading n staring at shit i have no idea how to make do what i want..... getting frustrated, giving up, trying a different angle...... again... and again.. and again

I guess the first "Cool" "Hacking" was:
A mmorpg called "DarkEden" (origional int server) and Gamerzplanet

learned about Packet Editing - WPE (Windows packet Editor)
Learned about Memory Editing/Injecting - CheatEngine
Learned to make my first (game)Macros/Scripts - AutoHotKey
Gained a Basic understanding of hex editing and assembly

AND STILL AT THIS STAGE I HAD NOT LEARNED A PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE!!!

and then fast forward another 7 years and here i am still pursueing my interests still i cant program but i have a far deeper and broader understanding of computer systems as a whole. (which of course only serves to remind me of how much i don't know )

The scripts i write are a little better and i have a pretty good idea of whats possible and how to go about it....

and only now am i really finding not knowng a programming language Well is my main bottle neck....

[Xodeskis]

if you're targetting games,  C++ is the right programming language for that (ex: Warcradt, Doom , CounterStrike,...)
but it would be hard to start directly with C++,  you should first master the basis of C  (data structures, memory usage, libraries..) and then move on to C++ , that will be smooth and easy
Good Luck 

[Kulverstukas]

It's not C++ entirely, you will use more of OpenGL or some other graphics framework regardless of the language for game dev.